Talks to Watch

Why Your Vote Doesn't Count

7.9M views · Mar 9, 2011 · 6:31 · 10 HN recommenders · 20 mentions · discussed 2015–2025

CGP Grey explains first-past-the-post voting and why it pushes elections toward two dominant parties. It is the first in his series on electoral systems.

Why Hacker News points people here: HN's go-to explainer for why FPTP leads to a two-party system, linked in countless voting-reform and US politics threads.

“this CGP Grey video explains how a first-past-the-post voting system all-but-guarantees a two party system to emerge over time”HN comment, 2016

What Hacker News said 20

Strongly recommendspolymatterApr 2015

“I highly recommend the following CGP Grey video for further detail about the problems of First Past the Post voting”

Detailed problems with First Past the Post voting

Full comment

I highly recommend the following CGP Grey video for further detail about the problems of First Past the Post voting ( this video ). > But instead we have FPTP, and why? Its the simplest and most naive electoral system so Joe Bloggs understands it. Its just "the person who gets the most votes wins". The problems this system causes are ephemeral statistical problems that require more than a 10 second soundbite to explain or even to detect happening. So from Joe Bloggs point of view, you want to change his fundamental right to vote based on the fact that your intellectual busywork has concluded that the wrong person can win the election. That's how the UK failed to get Alternative Vote passed in 2011.

in “Massive, Illicit Bust of Edward Snowden Stuck to a War Monument in Brooklyn” · view on HN
RecommendsQuanticlesJan 2015

“C.G.P. Grey has an entire series on why our voting system forces a two-party system.”

CGP Grey on why voting forces two parties

Full comment

C.G.P. Grey has an entire series on why our voting system forces a two-party system. The issue isn't getting your neighbour to change their voting habits, the issue is changing the system: this video

in “EFF Wins Battle Over Secret Legal Opinions on Government Spying” · view on HN
RecommendsnpizzolatoNov 2015

“I've always found this video a good explanation of the problems of our voting system”

Good explanation of the voting system's problems

Full comment

Ideologically, from a single voter's perspective, you're right. But practically, and looking at the entire population, it's not. The first past the post voting system we use will always result in two prominent parties, and the spoiler effect certainly exists. I've always found this video a good explanation of the problems of our voting system this video

in “Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign” · view on HN
RecommendsnunyabuiznessMar 2016

“this CGP Grey video explains how a first-past-the-post voting system all-but-guarantees a two party system to emerge over time”

Explains how first-past-the-post yields two parties

Full comment

Also, this CGP Grey video explains how a first-past-the-post voting system all-but-guarantees a two party system to emerge over time: this video

in “The New Mind Control – The internet has spawned subtle forms of influence” · view on HN
RecommendsFaarkJan 2019

“Here is a cutesy video for those new to FPTP voting issues”

Accessible intro to FPTP voting issues for newcomers.

Full comment

At that point you're basically discussion voting systems. Using first-past-the-post with three options, two of them being breixt, would heavily rig the vote towards remain. Improving voting systems would be great (especially looking at the US, if you ever want more than two real parties), but doing it on the back of such an important decision would be problematic at best. Here is a cutesy video for those new to FPTP voting issues: this video

in “Brexit Deal Fails in Parliament” · view on HN
RecommendsvikloveApr 2021

“Check out this video, it helps explain why diversity of thought has little to do with the number of political parties that form in a system.”

Explains why party count depends on voting system, not diversity of thought.

Full comment

Check out this video, it helps explain why diversity of thought has little to do with the number of political parties that form in a system. this video Dem/Rep are just two big coalitions in the US, and with first past the post voting, it's nearly impossible to have more than two parties in the long term.

in “Ted Chiang: Fears of Technology Are Fears of Capitalism” · view on HN
RecommendsreedjoshMay 2021

“I like CGP Grey on this issue.”

Commenter agrees with the video on voting methods.

Full comment

I like CGP Grey on this issue. this video I completely agree as far as voting methods are concerned and do think it would be a better system, but I still don't like giving a group of people rights to commit acts considered immoral when done by an individual.

in “Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax” · view on HN
RecommendsparetomanJun 2021

“Of course, everyone already knows CGP Grey's videos, right?”

Points to CGP Grey's whole voting video set.

Full comment

Okay, one more from Justin because it is a video: link Of course, everyone already knows CGP Grey's videos, right? .. wait.. nobody's posted it yet? OK, here's his whole video set: this video

in “What is ranked-choice voting and why is New York using it?” · view on HN
RecommendsCxckersJul 2022

“CPG Grey has a great explainer on why there will only ever be 2 political parties under the current system”

Great explainer on why only two parties survive under FPTP.

Full comment

And it will fail due to the current voting system. CPG Grey has a great explainer on why there will only ever be 2 political parties under the current system this video

in “Forward: An alternative US political party” · view on HN
RecommendsSammiSep 2025

“There's a great video by cpg grey explaining FPTP”

Great explainer on how FPTP leads to binary politics.

Full comment

It's because of the First Past The Post voting system that is used in the US, which means winner takes all. If you want to understand why the US seems so uniquely politically divided, then you will understand once you understand how FPTP voting works and how it inevitably leads to binary politics. Most countries have a voting system that leads to broader representation. US politics will always be black and white and divided so long as FPTP voting is used. There's a great video by cpg grey explaining FPTP: this video

in “EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies” · view on HN
Cites ittveitaMay 2016

“The first-past-the-post voting model is broken and virtually guarantees a two-party system”

Explains how first-past-the-post voting produces two-party systems.

Full comment

The first-past-the-post voting model is broken and virtually guarantees a two-party system where voters must vote strategically for candidates they don't support to avoid their least-preferred candidate winning. For instance, you may prefer Bernie Sander's policies but still vote Hillary if you think she will have a better chance against Trump in the election. Or you may prefer other Republican candidates, but want to avoid Trump going independent, splitting the voter base and handing the victory to the Democrats. I think this is a huge problem with the current system, as the lack of candidates they agree with make people get disillusioned and stop voting. this video

in “Americans’ Distaste for Both Trump and Clinton Is Record-Breaking (2016)” · view on HN
Cites itSapphireSunNov 2016

“Here's an analysis of the problems with First Past the Post which nearly always generates a two party system”

Analysis of first-past-the-post problems and two-party outcomes.

Full comment

Here's an analysis of the problems with First Past the Post which nearly always generates a two party system: this video

in “Why Are US Presidential Elections So Close?” · view on HN
Cites itnosuchthingFeb 2017

“Explanation of USA's FPTP count as root cause of a two party system”

Explains FPTP as root cause of the US two-party system.

Full comment

electoral system that supports more than two viable parties This would be: link link Explanation of USA's FPTP count as root cause of a two party system: this video

in “Trump’s F.C.C. Pick Quickly Targets Net Neutrality Rules” · view on HN
Cites itDiThiApr 2017

Background on two-party outcomes from the voting system.

Full comment

> What is the point of this statement? I think he means that it's not spying or infiltration when the data is already there for everyone to see. It's about influence on one area that will affect the whole human species, not just one country, and people (esp politicians) are still very misinformed about the issue. It's about informing everyone, just the opposite of spying. > am I participating honestly in the political process? You make it sound bad, but it's a much better proposition than what it is actually happening: People don't discuss politics, they fight it. It's not treated as a complex set of opinions that have to be reasoned over, but as a sport teams [0]. Furthermore, the way the voting system is designed, there won't be true parties in a specific position, but they're always reduced to two catch-all options with a very wide and overlapping set of opinions among their members, basically resulting in everybody be unsatisfied with the result [1]. And the point of the parent is that, since politics are broken, one can contribute to work around it from within. In fact parties evolve this way. The party of Obama was white supremacist related to KKK, and the party of Trump was Lincoln's which freed the slaves of the south. That sounds backwards, doesn't it? It's as if politics wasn't made of two opposing opinions, but of hundreds. (edit: snowwrestler above said it better, parties are not elected, are not part of the constitution and there's nothing inherently wrong or dis

in “We Just Breached the 410 PPM Threshold for CO2” · view on HN
Cites itkristofferRMay 2017

“it also contained a democratic system (first past the post/two party system) that is mathematically bound to breed divisiveness.”

Shows FPTP forces two camps and breeds divisiveness.

Full comment

Am I wrong in attributing/connecting most of Americas problems with its flawed constitution/democratic system? The first version of something is rarely the best version, and while the US constitution contained a lot of fantastic elements and freedoms that every educated American knows about, it also contained a democratic system (first past the post/two party system) that is mathematically bound to breed divisiveness. [1] [2] Since the American system forces people into two camps/parties based on ideology instead of the delivered results, the results suffer while the ideological conflict is enhanced. [1] this video [2] link

in “MIT economist believes U.S. is shifting to be more similar to developing nations” · view on HN
Cites itLoonyBalloonyNov 2017

“First Past the Post voting”

Explains first-past-the-post voting among alternative systems.

Full comment

First Past the Post voting: this video Range Voting: link Single Transferable vote: link Do away with voting booths, attach voting to everyone's tax forms. Give everyone a $5 tax credit for voting. People who don't do taxes can go to a public library and just pull the voting portion off of the tax forms there and mail it in. Break up corporations in every sector of the economy and either resell the chunks back to the market or turn them all into 100% worker owned and operated co-ops.

in “More Than a Million Pro-Repeal Net Neutrality Comments Were Likely Faked” · view on HN
Cites itthelasthumanSep 2018

“Electoral system: What we have now -”

Describes the current US electoral system for comparison.

Full comment

Some tweaks I'd make: Corporate structure: link Electoral system: What we have now - this video Range voting - link Alternative vote - link Single transferrable vote - link Marx wrote about the theory of societal evolution; That there are certain phases civilization must pass through. The communism he wrote about would have to be very far down the road, 100+ years (IMO). This does not mean people sit back and do nothing, we still would have to work towards it. (Most) Capitalists profit from the status quo, and work to keep in place systems to maintain their spot in the hierarchy. Thus the antiquated electoral system in the USA, and the top heavy power/pay structures of business. TL;DR: give the average person more of a say/choice in the world they live in (politics/workplace), and they will find their way forward. (IMO)

in “Decline of Global Extreme Poverty Continues but Has Slowed” · view on HN
Cites ittacocatacoDec 2020

“It's mathematically always going to lead to a stagnant two party system.”

Explains why FPTP leads to a stagnant two-party system.

Full comment

> Congress is paralyzed for some reason having to do with the new atmosphere of microsecond attention span and single-issue voting. I'd blame First Past the Post voting. [1] It's mathematically always going to lead to a stagnant two party system. When people are forced to vote against someone they don't want in office, representatives have no incentive to be anything other than "not #otherside". There is also no longer a reason to have voting in primaries at different times for different states. Having it setup this way means the results are influenced by various special interests (and not just through the media). [1] this video Sorry if this comment was to political in nature for HN.

in “SCOTUS rules you may sue government agents for damages when they violate rights” · view on HN
Cites itculiFeb 2022

“If you've ever watched CGP Grey's videos on electoral methods”

Cited as inspiration for an electoral methods toy project.

Full comment

I'll start off with my prototype: link Anyone into electoral methods or game theory? If you've ever watched CGP Grey's videos on electoral methods or seen Nicky Case's *To Build a Better Ballot*,[1] it's very much in the spirit of that. It's mostly a toy that will run a single election in a large number of different electoral methods. Currently I've implemented ~26 different electoral methods which is pretty neat. However, I've shied away from the methods that voting theory nerds love the most: Condorcet methods. I've implemented Copeland (although there's a mistake I haven't fixed yet) as well as Kemeny Young. However, Kemeny Young is implemented in the most brute force way possible and is O(n!) right now. Mostly I think I'm just looking for people with a math/game-theory background that would be interested in helping out, but I'm open to anyone interested. I know there's a lot of optimizations I could make to the Kemeny Young algorithm, but I've been hesitant to do so because I can't find the right theorems to make sure certain assumptions are true. For example, I'm quite sure that a subset of weak Condorcet winners would be at the front of the winning path, but I haven't found a textbook that's stated this explicitly and it's been a long time since college so I'm kinda iffy on proving it to myself. I also don't think having to learn the proof everytime just to make sure my assumptions are mathematically sound is the best way to develop such a tool. Thanks It's all open-s

in “Ask HN: Who wants to collaborate?” · view on HN
Cites itcadamsdotcomFeb 2025

“First-past-the-post voting practically guarantees a two party system emerges over time”

Shows FPTP practically guarantees a two-party system over time.

Full comment

To anyone sad about this: The alternative offered was Kamala Harris. Thanks DNC. First-past-the-post voting practically guarantees a two party system emerges over time: this video The US gov has been worn way at for decades by unscrupulous people seeking power and made so unpleasant to work in that few young people want to go into political leadership - and those that do don’t get far enough to have impact (eg. Buttigieg).. hence, old ass presidents. Truly impactful movers and shakers have easy access to capital in the US, can keep their companies and lives private, and achieve a very comfortable life. Why would anyone choose politics over that? Finally, the US gov system of checks and balances was designed assuming it could be perfected incrementally, but long-lived systems also need cycles of renewal - think of a forest. That design flaw is showing up now as key systems are getting cracked open by opportunists.

in “DOGE Has Started Gutting a Key US Technology Agency” · view on HN