2.3M views · Jun 28, 2021 · 17:08 · 10 HN recommenders · 20 mentions · discussed 2021–2025
Not Just Bikes argues that urban noise comes mostly from motor vehicles, drawing on the book Curbing Traffic and a visit to Delft, a city that takes noise seriously.
Why Hacker News points people here: HN cites it constantly in threads on noise, EVs and car-free cities as the source that cars, not cities, are loud.
“Fantastic video with that very name exploring just how true this is”HN comment, 2022
“Fantastic video with that very name exploring just how true this is”
Explores how true it is that cars are the noise source
> Cities aren't loud. Cars are loud. Fantastic video with that very name exploring just how true this is: this video
“They're very solid.”
Solid points despite snarky tone
Watch his video. Pick 2-3 at random, be a grown up and ignore the tone of voice and the snarkiness, and see what his points are. They're very solid. Try something like this: this video link
“this video provides some nice context”
Context on cities taking noise seriously
Yeah. Some places do take it seriously; this video provides some nice context: this video ...my city is unfortunately not one of them.
“NotJustBikes does a great video on this”
Explains that cars, not cities, cause urban noise
NotJustBikes does a great video on this this video Cities aren't Loud, Cars are Loud. Most "cities" in North America, to use the term generously, are miserable car sewers where you need to shout to have a conversation outside.
“A video specifically about noise pollution and how European cities are trying to solve it”
How European cities tackle noise pollution
I think you'll be very interested in the "Not Just Bikes" channel as he talks a lot about urban planing. There's a lot of political will and momentum for making living spaces ... livable in Europe. Places like The Netherlands and Denmark in particular. A video specifically about noise pollution and how European cities are trying to solve it - this video
“Most of the noise in cities comes from cars, that is a fact.”
Shows dense cities can be quiet; cars cause the noise
I don't get why I am getting such emotional responses. Most of the noise in cities comes from cars, that is a fact. Even dense cities can be fairly quiet. I suggest watching this video: this video Plus China has probably not the best building codes, the problem can be further improved by having proper sound isolation in homes. Dense cities mean you will have everything in walking distance. There will be much more space for parks and other areas of recreation.
“Cities aren't loud; motor vehicles are.”
Addendum on motor vehicles as main urban noise source
An addendum to the posted article: this video Cities aren't loud; motor vehicles are. Tire noise near heavy stroads and highways are in particular egregious offenders. There's a lot of other points in the comments about some other urban nuisances (leaf blowers, anyone?) but I encourage anyone to walk around (yes, walk) while measuring the ambient noise levels with your smartphone's microphone. It will be extremely obvious where the noise is coming from. This is an often misunderstood part of "the war on cars:" the stress gained from additional constant noise (e.g. like a highway) takes YEARS off our lives. And don't get me started on how loud shops are in North America. For whatever reason they seem to always keep the volume three or four levels above comfortable, making it much harder to have a conversation without shouting at least a little. It wasn't until I started traveling a lot that I started to notice any of this. You can have your quiet part of town, but often you get to your quiet part of town by driving through the noisiest part of town where a good number of people live and work.
“pretty astounding if you've never really considered it”
Astounding look at vehicle noise, including mopeds
NJB has a video on the subject which is pretty astounding if you've never really considered it: this video It also specifically calls out mopeds: this video
“there are some good video comparisons that really hit this home for me”
Good video comparisons of city versus car noise
So true - there are some good video comparisons that really hit this home for me, like the Not Just Bikes video “Cities aren’t loud; Cars are loud” [1] 1. this video
“I found this video pretty interesting”
Cities experimenting with quieter road surfaces
Cars driving at high speed over normal asphalt also generate a lot of tire noies and particulate pollution, even if they are electric cars. I found this video pretty interesting - some cities are experimenting with different road surfaces to reduce noise this video
“The test in this video demonstrates it”
Test showing tire noise dominates for electric cars
The test in this video demonstrates it this video . Obviously this applies to the ~average~ car. A hellcat or sports bike tearing down the highway will be louder but the consistent drone of tire noise increases slightly for electric cars.
“Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud”
Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud this video edit: and I'm not saying that cities are our only option, I'm saying that cities are our only option if we want to avoid having to create and maintain an utterly staggering amount of batteries.
“This is better explained by NotJustBikes video”
Explains vehicles as main city noise source
I can confirm first-hand that it's the main noise pollution source there. As I stated in a sibling thread, 3 of the 4 sources I cited come from motorized vehicles: mopeds, general ICE noise, honking (in that order). This is better explained by NotJustBikes video "Cities aren't loud: cars are loud": this video
“Well designed & walkable cities are actually pretty mild when it comes to noise.”
Cited as source that cars cause city noise
> lot less noise. Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud [1] Having lived in many different types of cities, it is always the car-centric downtowns and suburban main-streets that are loudest. Well designed & walkable cities are actually pretty mild when it comes to noise. [1] this video
“Cities without cars can easily average <55 dBA.”
Source for dBA levels in car-free cities
Most of the noise in cities does come from cars. You're right that cities will never be <35 dBA, but most rural areas are not usually that quiet either. For example, even slight wind will cause ambient noise in wilderness to 40-60 dBA. Cities without cars can easily average <55 dBA. See this video [1] or this research [2] for sources. [1] this video [2] link
“EV's are only quieter inside of the car, at speed they're just as loud as ICE cars, sometimes louder.”
Shows EVs are as loud as ICE cars at speed
EV's are only quieter inside of the car, at speed they're just as loud as ICE cars, sometimes louder. [0] If we're going to reduce car noise, the only option is to make them go slower and move them away from residential areas. [0]: this video
“I live in Malmö on the southern edge of Sweden opposite Copenhagen, it's quieter here”
Cited for title claim supporting personal anecdote
Cities aren't loud. Cars are loud.[0] I live in Malmö on the southern edge of Sweden opposite Copenhagen, it's quieter here (pop: 350,000~) than my friends home village in Northamptonshire (Thrapston; pop: 6,239 as of 2011). This was largely because of the sheer volume of cars on the road, because you essentially have to drive to get anywhere. London is similar, despite not everyone needing a car there is traffic everywhere , you can notice that there's back streets and they tend to be very quiet until there are lots and lots of people, think >200 in a 100sqm area. Having the ability to escape noise is the most important part of noise management. Cities like London have almost no respite from the noise and thus it can be physically draining for many people to experience it. Including myself. [0]: this video
“Most of the car noise is due to tire friction.”
Tire friction dominates car noise, from 11m10s
Electric cars are loud as well. Most of the car noise is due to tire friction. Start at 11m10s mark on this video
Example of Dutch streets and environments
> So make cars pollute less Physically impossible to have them pollute less than methods of mass transportation. Mathematically, even. Just divide the number of people carried per pollution caused by cars vs trains, bikes, or even buses. There's nothing you can do to make cars competitive. > Figure out how to filter microplastics from our food and water "Just figure it out", ok. But even then, an ounce of prevention is worth the pound of a cure. > Figure out what's causing asthma in children A little random but ok. I'm guessing grinding up rubber and metal particles into the air right next to where said children live isn't the best for their lungs. > Not sure how obesity is related. Maybe improve the food supply? 1. Wake up 2. Walk 30 feet to your car 3. Sit as you drive to work 4. Spend 8 hours at your desk 5. Walk 30 feet to your car 6. Sleep 7. Why am I fat?! Maybe improve the food supply?! > A lot of these are solved with electric cars which are increasingly more competitive. Virtually none are, an electric car is still a car, see point 1. > Why force people to regress towards a worse product rather than address these technical issues? Highly dependent on your definition of worse; I'd argue the sort of streets and environments you can find in the Netherlands [1][2][3] are way better than in the US. Not everything is a technical issue that can simply be solved by better engineering. [1]: this video [2]: link [3]: link
“which found EVs to be similar to ICE cars at typical speeds”
Found EVs similar to ICE cars at typical speeds
I first heard the phrase used by parent in a video [1] by youtube channel Not Just Bikes, which found EVs to be similar to ICE cars at typical speeds. [1] this video
