Talks to Watch

Bitcoin Q&A: Energy Consumption

96K views · Dec 12, 2017 · 5:51 · 0 HN recommenders · 4 mentions · discussed 2018–2021

Andreas Antonopoulos answers a Bitcoin Q&A question about energy consumption in mining. He argues that mining is arbitrage for the cheapest electricity, drives investment in renewables, and that the traditional financial system has hidden externalities.

Why Hacker News points people here: HN commenters link it as a defense of Bitcoin's energy use, offered as a rebuttal to claims that mining is wasteful.

What Hacker News said 4

Cites itcraigcMay 2018

“I would also encourage you to watch this”

Offered in defense of Bitcoin's energy use.

Full comment

> It can be double-spent Well aware of this fact, but it has never happened partially because Bitcoin is the largest and most secure blockchain. Regular currencies can be double spent too, but rely on trusted intermediaries to step in and reverse the fraudulent transactions. In a way that is part of what makes Bitcoin so remarkable. That you can transact without having to depend on intermediaries. > It can not, therefore, represent an economy that expands in real value as it grows to include more people engaging in more trade. No, the value is in the fact that what you hold represents a piece of a limited number of coins that will ever exist. Gold does not increase in value because people are actively spending it to purchase coffee. It is a hedge against inflation. As more US dollars enter the economy and are used for transactions, the value of a single dollar decreases. > The network presently costs the Earth as much energy as the entire energy usage of the country of Denmark. I am not going to defend the energy usage and say that that is good, but the energy usage is part of the reason the network is secure and why there hasn’t been a 51% attack. FWIW the traditional economy: banks, vaults, armored vehicles, money printing, etc uses up far more energy. I would also encourage you to watch this: this video . Bitcoin actually has the power to introduce innovations to produce cheaper, alternative energy due to mining competition. > A transaction can take "anywhere from 30 minutes

in “How Futures Trading Changed Bitcoin Prices” · view on HN
Cites itcraigcJul 2018
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Based on your reply, I am fairly convinced you have already made up your mind so it is somewhat pointless to spend my time trying to convince you otherwise, but I will say a couple things. For one, while our civilized world is built on trust and you may trust Banks, Governments, Tech companies etc, the majority of millennials do not trust Banks or Governments. Numbers outside the US are even lower. For more information about this I would recommend watching this presentation: link I believe money is something that you should be able to have full control and ownership of. Governments and banks can lock or seize accounts/funds for any reason. Banks can limit deposit/withdrawal/transfer amounts. I don’t think that right now this is a big problem, but in the future, imagine banks getting hacked and funds stolen or even a bank run. There are a lot of scenarios where I can see our financial system failing. If inflation rates increase then it will drive more people towards things like Gold and Bitcoin. Look at what has been going on in Venezuela. As far as the electricity use, please consider taking a look at this article: link It also links to a couple of other sources that show how gold mining, paper currency/minting, and electricity used from the banking system all use orders of magnitude more electricity than Bitcoin mining does. If ultimately Bitcoin can replace banks or even gold, then it will have done the world a favor. Most miners also use renewable energy such as hydro

in “Is the Bitcoin network an oligarchy?” · view on HN
Cites itsiwatanejoDec 2020

“Debunked.”

Listed as a source debunking Bitcoin energy waste claims.

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> The second one is that it makes illegal activities easier, and at a larger scale. It's quite common right now for companies to be coerced pay millions of dollars to anonymous criminals, all enabled with cryptocurrencies. For the vast majority of businesses/individuals, it is governments and banking cartels the ones stealing your money (via inflation and fractional reserve respectively) without recourse. Switching to a world in which, instead of all of us, but only a few, are stolen money, is a bit better. > The most prominent negative effect is the huge energy waste, which doesn't help when we are trying to cut on our carbon footprint Debunked. Sources: * link * link * link * this video * link * link * link

in “Bitcoin still makes no sense” · view on HN
Cites itoraphalousFeb 2021

“smart people in the bitcoin space NEVER spent any time thinking about energy consumption”

Shows Bitcoin community does consider energy consumption.

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"and many enthusiasts don't seem to understand enough about Bitcoin to even realize it." Yeah because - smart people in the bitcoin space NEVER spent any time thinking about energy consumption. this video

in “Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)” · view on HN