Richard Feldman explains how pure functional languages can match or beat imperative ones on performance. Compilers can turn immutable code into in-place mutation, avoiding naive copying. The talk draws on his work on the Roc language.
Why Hacker News points people here: Recommended as the clearest explanation of why immutable data need not be slow, and as the introduction to Roc.
“As a starting point for those nitty grittys, this talk is probably as good as any”HN comment, 2022
“Roc-lang, which is a functional, systems language in development uses something called opportunistic in-place mutation to do just that.”
Creator explains opportunistic in-place mutation in functional language Roc.
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> How would one optimize for immutability in this case, other than turning it back into mutability behind the scenes? Roc-lang, which is a functional, systems language in development uses something called opportunistic in-place mutation to do just that. Here's a video where the creator talks about it: this video
Recommendsniels_bomNov 2021
“why immutable does not necessarily mean slow and given enough attention can mean higher performance in certain cases”
Explains why immutable data can be fast.
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This talk by Richard Feldman about Roc (a new language) goed into why immutable does not necessarily mean slow and given enough attention can mean higher performance in certain cases: this video
RecommendsaquadropFeb 2022
“I just saw nice talk by Richard Feldman [1] about it”
Talk introducing Roc, an Elm-inspired language.
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Maybe link ? It's not production ready, I just saw nice talk by Richard Feldman [1] about it and it's inspired by Elm. [1] this video
RecommendsAkronymusJun 2022
“As a starting point for those nitty grittys, this talk is probably as good as any”
Explains how functional compilers achieve efficiency without naive copying.
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> Functional programming experts say that their code is efficient because the compiler translates it to an efficient representation on the CPU. They have TCO and other things. But they don't mutate data and hence every function call creates a new data in memory taking up space. How do they overcome that? By letting the compiler make assumptions. For example, consecutive map calls can be converted into a single one. If the data isn't shared with something else, the compiler can mutate it. MUCH easier to paralellize maps. As a starting point for those nitty grittys, this talk is probably as good as any this video
RecommendsyashrkNov 2023
“The unique selling point of Roc is clever optimization to convert purely functional source code to deep-imperative fast machine code”
Explains how Roc turns pure functional code into fast imperative machine code.
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If you are interested, «why yet another programming language?». The unique selling point of Roc is clever optimization to convert purely functional source code to deep-imperative fast machine code, while keeping all the correctness of functional algorithms. See this video of Richard Feldman for details — «Outperforming Imperative with Pure Functional Languages»: this video Among those clever optimizations: - static reference counting (no GC, like in Rust, but with no borrowing and borrow problems); - stack allocation of the data with no external links; - hidden («opportunistic») mutability even in the cases, where Haskell or Lisp will copy the value.
Recommendsgreener_grassOct 2024
“Roc Lang might interest you”
Introduces Roc and how functional constructs become in-place mutation.
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1. Structural sharing - most data doesn't change so you create a copy that reuses much of the original structure 2. Garbage collection and lexical scopes - you clean up memory quickly and in batch 3. Compiler optimizations - you turn functional constructs into imperative ones that reuse and mutate memory at compile-time, where it is provably safe to do so Roc Lang might interest you: this video
Recommendsgreener_grassFeb 2025
“I first learned about Roc from this talk”
Introduces Roc, a fast functional language without GC.
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We already have many great GC'd functional languages at that performance level. I first learned about Roc from this talk: this video That's a niche that is not currently filled (well, maybe MLTon) and that has me very excited! I'm sure I'm not alone here.
Cites ityewenjieFeb 2022
“Up and coming Languages I am excited about”
Talk about the Roc language, listed among exciting new languages.
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So many new programming languages coming up with clever features that makes me wish I could mix and match their core features while using libraries from more popular languages. Up and coming Languages I am excited about - 1. Roc - this video 2. Zig - link 3. Scopes - link 4. Gleam - link 5. Odin - link 6. Koka - link 7. Unison - link