5.7M views · Sep 10, 2014 · 48:23 · 6 HN recommenders · 16 mentions · discussed 2017–2024
An Al Jazeera investigation into Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, featuring current and former engineers who voice safety concerns. It covers quality control problems at the South Carolina plant and the roots of the battery problems that grounded the plane.
Why Hacker News points people here: Boeing threads cite it as early evidence of deep cultural and quality problems at Boeing, years before the 737 MAX crashes.
“AlJazeera deserves respect for this excellent footage they got from inside the factory.”HN comment, 2024
“AlJazeera deserves respect for this excellent footage they got from inside the factory.”
Excellent footage from inside the Boeing factory
No matter how you may feel about (all) nation-state sponsored media outlets, AlJazeera deserves respect for this excellent footage they got from inside the factory. It's a few years old, but should have raised more alarm by now: this video
“It's worth watching Al Jazeera's series on the production of the 787 Dreamliner”
Interviews with ex-employees and engineers on Boeing culture
It's worth watching Al Jazeera's series on the production of the 787 Dreamliner, and related cultural issues at Boeing after their merger with McDonnell Douglas [1]. Personally, I think it's worth taking with a grain of salt as it appears quite one-sided, but the interviews with Boeing ex-employees and head engineers are enlightening, and could go some way to explaining the lack of redundant systems (i.e. cost and time). [1] this video
“Check out this documentary on Boeing's sketchy manufacturing & QA process back in the days of the 787 release.”
Boeing's sketchy manufacturing and QA process during 787 release
Check out this documentary on Boeing's sketchy manufacturing & QA process back in the days of the 787 release. It seems that the company has been toxic for a while now. this video
“this report is quite eye opening.”
Eye-opening report on Charleston plant allegations
Al Jazeera has a long report on YouTube [0] covering the allegations around Charleston, I know that they can be biased against the US but this report is quite eye opening. Even more given the interview with a VP (or director, can't remember exactly the position) being cut short by the PR person involved, the reports from workers inside the factory stating they wouldn't fly a plane built there, etc. [0] this video
“Al Jazeera did a great investigation ~ 9 years ago”
Great investigation of Boeing issues years before MCAS
The MCAS is what brought Boeing issues into the zeitgeist, but I was aware of issues at Boeing ~ 18 years ago from friends who had worked there and Al Jazeera did a great investigation ~ 9 years ago ( this video ). Boeing used to be the gold standard and as someone who researches such gold standards it was disheartening to see them give that up. But that happened very slowly and started a long time ago. Clearly diluting focus away from safety is an issue for whatever the reason especially when the safety of airplanes is declining. This should also be taken in context that many aspects of manufacturing have improved greatly over the past 20 years so even if everything else stayed the same the general safety should have been greatly improved. So the drag on safety by the culture is bad enough to overcome these 'free' gains and end up with even less safe planes should highlight just how bad that effect is.
“This video (though from 2014) was remarkable”
Remarkable 2014 Boeing investigation
Another worrisome development: link Al-Jazeera has really been on fire digging into Boeing. This video (though from 2014) was remarkable: this video
“The SC Boeing plant doesn't exactly come off looking very good in the Aljazeera documentary”
Documentary on Boeing's South Carolina 787 plant
The SC Boeing plant doesn't exactly come off looking very good in the Aljazeera documentary [1] on the 787. Just having a job shouldn't necessarily be the goal...the quality of the job and the rights of the workers to advocate for the safety of workers and the public are also things the Unions have traditionally done. I don't usually advocate for or against unions...I think they make sense in some situations and less so in others, but the Boeing case doesn't seem to be a good argument against unions. Boeing prospered tremendously when working with the unions in Washington state and it seems that a lot of their recent anti-union behavior is part of a number of decisions they've made that are quite short-sighted. [1] this video
“The story builds up over time -- it points to major problems at Boeing.”
Points to major problems at Boeing
The story builds up over time -- it points to major problems at Boeing. e.g. this video (The Boeing 787: Broken Dreams)
“They've been sourcing out their own work to Boeing since the 787 Dreamliner”
I still don't trust the FAA at all. They've been sourcing out their own work to Boeing since the 787 Dreamliner [0]. That's seven years ago. I don't think this will make them change their practices. The 787 fiasco certainly didn't. Personally I'd be happiest if the world just scrapped all the Max-es. Just scrap 'em, let Boeing go out of business, it's what they deserve now, they shouldn't exist anymore as a company. There are enough businesses that happily create planes without putting profit before people. It's really too bad that there's no footage of either of the crashes, because if people could see what happened they would never fly one of those things again. That's why people don't fly zeppelins anymore. Not because of what people said or read, but because they saw. The Max deserves the same. Do you want to fly in a plane which was created using the deaths of over 300 people to finalize the design? [0] The Boeing 787: Broken Dreams, Al Jazeera Investigations, this video
“I saw this documentary about issues with the 787 back in 2014, and it was clear that something was massively wrong at Boeing”
I saw this documentary about issues with the 787 back in 2014, and it was clear that something was massively wrong at Boeing: this video The engineers doing the work know what it takes to make a good airplane. Let them do their jobs.
“The part about the plant has an interview with an employee recording other employees worried about safety, training and other issues.”
Charleston plant quality control segment
Interestingly I found out about Boeing's N.C. plant quality control issues from an Al-Jazeera report on the 787 [0] way back in 2014. The part about the plant has an interview with an employee recording other employees worried about safety, training and other issues. There is a Q&A with a Boeing VP that is interrupted by some PR/legal aide when questions about quality issues in Charleston start. It's an ongoing issue for quite a long time... [0] this video (I've timestamped to the relevant part about the Charleston plant)
“many workers of the South Carolina plant would never fly a 787.”
According to this newer documentation, many workers of the South Carolina plant would never fly a 787. Because they know how they are being made. this video
“the employees themselves are caught on video stating "I wouldn't fly on a plane made here".”
Investigates South Carolina plant culture versus unionized Washington
There are reports about the SC plant making the 787 from Al Jazeera [1] where they investigate exactly that. And the unionisation helps a lot in the Washington plant to allow employees to speak up with no fear of reprimands. I do believe being unionised impacts a lot the work environment psychological safety, allowing employees of the plant to halt production if they don't think work is being performed up to their standards, in NC there is no such provision and the employees themselves are caught on video stating "I wouldn't fly on a plane made here". [1] this video
“Then you really shouldn't watch this video”
Summarizes fuselage fit problems and whistleblower retaliation
> I love flying on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner Then you really shouldn't watch this video: this video TLDW: Critical Dreamliner fuselage parts didn't fit together because workers at the subcontractor (Ducommun) traced a template with magic marker onto the material and cut and drilled the part by hand. Officially, the parts were manufactured by high precision CNC machinery with extremely small tolerances. At Boeing, if drill holes didn't match up in parts A and B, workers were told to just put the parts together and re-drill the hole in part B through the hole in part A, or hammer the parts into place. Internal Boeing investigators who found out and documented the issues were threatened to be sued if they spoke up. They were later fired, after the US government allegedly leaked their identities to Boeing. Here, a Boeing employee speaks about the work culture in the manufacturing plant: this video
“This documentary is not as damning as Al Jezeera’s documentary on the 2013 airframe mishaps”
More damning than another Boeing documentary
It describes how it used providers instead of internalization to push down on the prices. However, to anyone who might expect it, it doesn’t tell that Boeing has fired 900 QAs out of 3000 back in 2021. This documentary is not as damning as Al Jezeera’s documentary on the 2013 airframe mishaps: this video Maybe it’s a European bias, but I’d like to see more shame (and jail time) upon the Boeing management, down to the guy at the bottom who signed off the bolt work without even looking at the plane, which is criminal. But I’m fair, I’d also enjoy the management of Volkswagen going to jail, like that manager who went to holidays through a USA connection and was intercepted by the US border and is still rotting in jail.
“This revealed a host of problems with the 787 Dreamliner, mainly that its battery packs catch fire”
Revealed 787 problems including battery fires
You're referring to The Boeing 787: Broken Dreams published in 2014 by Al Jazeera this video This revealed a host of problems with the 787 Dreamliner, mainly that its battery packs catch fire (which is why it was grounded by the FAA from January to April 2013 to revise the battery design). This is the plane relevant to this latest whistleblower, but not the same plane as the 737 MAX, the one with the MCAS system and the door plugs missing bolts
