Talks to Watch

This is why we can't have nice things

25.6M views · Mar 26, 2021 · 17:30 · 4 HN recommenders · 15 mentions · discussed 2021–2024

Veritasium explores planned obsolescence, from the Phoebus lightbulb cartel to printers and phones. It explains how companies deliberately shortened product lifetimes and why products aren't better.

Why Hacker News points people here: Commenters link it as the engaging go-to explainer on planned obsolescence and the lightbulb cartel.

“Veritasium made a video that reviews the history and presents the topic in an engaging way.”HN comment, 2021

What Hacker News said 15

Strongly recommendssomenameformeMay 2022

“Veritasium has an awesome video on planned obsolescence here.”

Covers the light bulb cartel with fines for long-lasting bulbs.

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Veritasium has an awesome video on planned obsolescence here. [1] The problem in many cases isn't that it costs so much more to make products that last, but rather that making products that break is just way more profitable when you can effectively control the market to such a degree that you don't need to worry about some party pooper (1) coming in and making stuff that does genuinely last and (2) gaining significant marketshare. The example of the light bulb cartel that had unquality assurance, spot testing, and a formal structure of fines and penalties for any members who made too long of lasting lightbulbs is just hilariously dystopic. [1] - this video

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RecommendsinfogulchApr 2021

“Veritasium made a video that reviews the history and presents the topic in an engaging way.”

Engaging review of the Phoebus cartel history.

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Veritasium made a video that reviews the history and presents the topic in an engaging way. "This is why we can't have nice things" - this video

RecommendsComradePhilMar 2022

“Veritasium video on planned obsolescence which is interesting”

Interesting video on planned obsolescence.

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This is a very good start. If they did the same for screens, I wouldn't be surprised if the phone sales dropped to half or even less. There is no way companies like Apple and Samsung will be OK with this. I expect big pushback from them. If these steps go through, it will be interesting to see what other planned obsolescence [1] methods will these companies go for. The one big tool Apple has is the full control of the software ecosystem. They can simply make newer apps unavailable for old phones for example. That will need to be tackled at some point. [1] Veritasium video on planned obsolescence which is interesting: this video

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RecommendssomenameformeMay 2022

“The comments for the linked video [1] are awesome because it has so many people from different areas of industry (and academia) sharing anecdotes.”

Video's comments hold many industry anecdotes on planned obsolescence.

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In modern times planned obsolescence is a normal part of business. The comments for the linked video [1] are awesome because it has so many people from different areas of industry (and academia) sharing anecdotes. So cartel? Probably not. Built to fail? Almost certainly. If we view things only through the lens of profit, then MTTF (mean time to fail) is just another curve to maximize against profit. If it's too short then your reputation will suffer and you'll lose money. If it's too long, then you're just leaving money on the table. In our society the brilliant engineer is not the one who makes a thing that last for 50 years, but one that lasts for just long enough to avoid damaging your brand image, and also fails in a way that makes the consumer more incentivized to buy a new thing than try to repair their current one. The guy who came up with the idea of slowing old iPhones "to save battery life" is who the bonus+promotion is going to. One of the biggest problems that has to be understood is that there is every incentive for money-driven governments to actively support planned obsolescence. Planned obsolescence drives factors that we believe are indicators of a strong economy, like GDP. If people were able to stop endlessly buying the same things over and over, the "economy" would take an absolutely massive hit. And with it there would also be declines in employment, tax revenue, and everything else. This is one of the many examples where the socially detrimental relation

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RecommendsdeltasevennineAug 2022

“Worth watching if you have 15 minutes”

Story of how companies colluded to shorten lightbulb life.

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I don't think you understand the extent of what's going on. It's not that people are trying to make hardware last forever. It's that these devices are being deliberately designed to break down in a couple years. There are actual design decisions to force consumer behavior into purchasing new things every couple of years. This doesn't just apply to things that follow moores law. Almost every product in existence nowadays is literally designed to break earlier then they usually do. Companies in certain cases actually spend more money creating a design that ensures that a product will break early so that consumers will buy a new thing within some years. This includes cars, computers, phones, microwaves, lightbulbs. Etc. Your personal need to buy a new car, new phone and new clothes is the result of market manipulation over the last 10 decades or so... morphing our culture from one where we kept tools around for years into one where we need to buy new things all the time. It was not like this at least 1 or 2 generations ago. The result of this endless buying behavior is good for business and the economy but it has devastating effects on the environment and our resources. Worth watching if you have 15 minutes: this video The actual story of how companies colluded to make lightbulbs not last as long.

in “Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret” · view on HN
RecommendsdeltasevennineAug 2022

“To learn more here's an interesting short video about it”

Short interesting video on planned obsolescence.

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This is called planned obsolescence, and it's not just electronics. Practically every product nowadays are designed with a death date to perpetuate a repeating buying cycle from consumers. It's very real. To learn more here's an interesting short video about it: this video

in “Electronics are built with death dates. Let’s not keep them a secret” · view on HN
Cites itqartApr 2021

“The cartels were for incandescent light bulbs [1], rather than other kinds of lighting.”

History of the lightbulb cartel and planned obsolescence.

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The cartels were for incandescent light bulbs [1], rather than other kinds of lighting. It's harder for cartels to exist now, given that we can buy alternatives from other countries on Ebay and AliExpress. [1] this video

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Cites itkenmacdApr 2021

Shows old bulbs burned out quickly due to lack of regulation.

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> Light bulbs don’t illuminate. I find this one especially funny as it's pretty much the lack of regulation that made the 'old' bulbs burn out much too quickly [1]. And before someone says "but my LED bulbs keep burning out", also the free-market/lack of regulation. To see how they should be built watch Clive on how bulbs are made for Dubai[2]. 1. this video 2. link

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Cites itneonologicalMay 2021

“Consumer grade products are deliberately designed to fail. This is why”

Explains why consumer products are designed to fail.

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Consumer grade products are deliberately designed to fail. This is why: this video If you're older, like really old, you can actually remember a time where products were of a much much higher durability before the industry figured out that low durability products were more profitable. So in actuality some of the suggestions on that site aren't necessarily overkill as industrial products aren't deliberately engineered to fail.

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Cites itadhesive_wombatFeb 2022

“Lightbulbs have a long and very successful history of artificially driving lightbulb lifetimes down though a cartel system”

Lightbulb lifetimes were driven down artificially via a cartel.

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There are in fact LED bulbs that aren't overdriven to a deliberate and premature thermal death, but you can only buy them in Dubai: link Lightbulbs have a long and very successful history of artificially driving lightbulb lifetimes down though a cartel system: this video If you're building your own LED fixtures, you can probably underdrive the LEDs and run them at a radically cooler and slightly more efficient operating point, at a higher upfront cost: you need more LEDs for the same output.

in “Someone should probably start a bright home lighting company (2019)” · view on HN
Cites itanthropodieAug 2022

Resource on planned obsolescence.

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We need to find a way to move on, once something is perfected. Because if we don't we kinda ruin what we have already perfected. It's called planned obsolescence and below are some resources on the same. It is widely used across industries for over a century and kinda plays a huge role in climate change. Veritasium this video DW (mostly about phone) link

Cites itlglNov 2022

“There's a particular video from Veritasium [1] that comes to mind regarding this.”

Video on planned obsolescence.

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Most likely yes, as it is also done by many electronics companies. It's called "planned obsolescence" [0]. There's a particular video from Veritasium [1] that comes to mind regarding this. [0] link [1] this video

in “Ask HN: Are iPhones designed to last for a couple of years?” · view on HN
Cites itquaintdevDec 2022

“There are nice documentaries about this”

Documentary-style resource on planned obsolescence.

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This exact behavior drives planned obsolescence. This has led to so much waste over past century that it's going to be very hard to go back. I was baffled that we invented a bulb that could last 100 years over a century ago and I still have to change bulbs every year or two. There are nice documentaries about this [0] The end of ownership link [1] This is why we can't have nice things this video

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Cites itshagieMar 2023

“This goes into the "actual conspiracy - not a theory" category.”

Documents the Phoebus cartel as a real conspiracy.

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This goes into the "actual conspiracy - not a theory" category. Veritasium - This is why we can't have nice things - this video The Great Lightbulb Conspiracy link > On 23 December 1924, a group of leading international businessmen gathered in Geneva for a meeting that would alter the world for decades to come. Present were top representatives from all the major lightbulb manufacturers, including Germany’s Osram, the Netherlands’ Philips, France’s Compagnie des Lampes, and the United States’ General Electric. As revelers hung Christmas lights elsewhere in the city, the group founded the Phoebus cartel, a supervisory body that would carve up the worldwide incandescent lightbulb market, with each national and regional zone assigned its own manufacturers and production quotas. It was the first cartel in history to enjoy a truly global reach. link

in “There's something off about LED bulbs” · view on HN
Cites itplewdAug 2024

“Not exactly the most reliable supporting evidence, but Veritasium has a video which talks about this stuff.”

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Not exactly the most reliable supporting evidence, but Veritasium has a video which talks about this stuff. this video

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